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Author Topic: Interesting Hand - How would OCP Bid this hand?  (Read 175 times)

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Jimmy

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Interesting Hand - How would OCP Bid this hand?
« on: July 04, 2018, 09:00:48 PM »

Played in a 2 day Swiss Event recently.  This hand came up and my partner, "first to bid", opened 4 !S. Using Key Card Blackwood,  we ended up in 6 !S, making 7 (Partner used ruffing finance on the K !C)  (Not the way I would have played it,  I would have first tried to ruff out the K !C). 

Any way,  here is the hand.  How would this have been bid in OCP? Both the opening bid and following bids.   Thanks. 


North                                 South

S   KJ10987532                   AQ64
H   A93                               876
D                                        A   
C   4                                   AQJ83
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brian_m

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Re: Interesting Hand - How would OCP Bid this hand?
« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2018, 09:51:36 PM »

Played in a 2 day Swiss Event recently.  This hand came up and my partner, "first to bid", opened 4 !S. Using Key Card Blackwood,  we ended up in 6 !S, making 7 (Partner used ruffing finance on the K !C)  (Not the way I would have played it,  I would have first tried to ruff out the K !C). 

Any way,  here is the hand.  How would this have been bid in OCP? Both the opening bid and following bids.   Thanks. 


North                                 South

S   KJ10987532                   AQ64
H   A93                               876
D                                        A   
C   4                                   AQJ83

First thing to note, Jimmy, is that there is no way that this is a 4 !S opener in OCP. I would bid 4 !S without the !H A and (unless at adverse) without the 9th  !S too. It's a NAMYATS 4 !D opener IMO, 11 times out of 10.

You ask for the full OCP sequence. Sorry, I can't give you a definite sequence, because this hand raises questions which (AFAIK) are not covered in the notes.

So, having said that :-

4 !D - 4 !H (Beta)

and now this brings up an interesting question. Which beta scale are we on? A strict reading of the notes would suggest that we're on the weak scale, but I find it very difficult to construct a NAMYATS opener which doesn't contain at least two controls, so I would argue for using the normal beta scale in this situation.

4NT(3) - ??

And now I'd want some further thought as to whether we cue bid or use Epsilons. I suspect that this might be down to partnership agreement.

If we're using Epsilons, then I would argue for responder just blasting 6 !S over 4NT. You might look rather silly if opponents cash two or more  !H tricks, but the suit responder really needs to know about is  !H, and obviously the response to a 5 !H Epsilon is very likely to take us past 5 !S anyway, so why bother asking? So 4NT-6 !S and it's now just a question of whether opener has the nerve to punt the grand with the unshown void and extra  !S

Cue bidding makes things a little more certain,

4NT-5 !C
5 !D-5 !S
6 !S

and I don't think we're going to get to 7 !S. It could all too easily be on a  !C finesse, and grand slams on a finesse are not good odds.

« Last Edit: July 04, 2018, 11:56:14 PM by brian_m »
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Please note that any OCP questions I answer are based on my current knowledge of the system, and I've PROBABLY checked them on the website. I've never done Oliver's course (as the time just doesn't work for me) so if he's taught something different in previous years, I don't know about it!

Jimmy

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Re: Interesting Hand - How would OCP Bid this hand?
« Reply #2 on: July 04, 2018, 11:36:09 PM »

Thanks B, 

Missed the Stayman section in pre-empts.  Makes sense.  OCP would easily bid to the slam, regardless of North opening 4 !D or 4 !S, especially with the South hand. 
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brian_m

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Re: Interesting Hand - How would OCP Bid this hand?
« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2018, 12:10:59 AM »

There is another alternative, which I had forgotten - instead of the 4 !H beta, you can bid 4NT as an invite to cue. If that happens, then opener has an interesting next bid. With first round controls in TWO outside suits, again it's a matter of partnership agreement. I used to use an agreement that, after the intermediate suit slam try, we would bid 4NT with two first round controls. Obviously the fact that OCP uses the intermediate suit as beta and the 4NT response as the invite to cue kills off that scheme, but I suppose you could use 5NT as indicating two first round controls. This has to be an Ace and a void, because with two Aces and a good  !S suit you would open 1 !S or 1 !C rather than 4 !D (at least, I would!)

In fairness to Oliver, you just can't expect a set of web notes to cover a system to this depth - nobody would ever learn the thing if Oliver tried to cover everything - so it just has to be left up to partnership understanding, and if you'e not in a regular partnership which wants to go into things in this sort of depth, then the once a decade that it comes up, you just have to shut your eyes and guess!  ::)

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Please note that any OCP questions I answer are based on my current knowledge of the system, and I've PROBABLY checked them on the website. I've never done Oliver's course (as the time just doesn't work for me) so if he's taught something different in previous years, I don't know about it!

lute57

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Re: Interesting Hand - How would OCP Bid this hand?
« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2018, 04:16:03 AM »

Hi Jimmy,

I agree with Brian, IMO this is too good for a direct 4 !S preempt. 4 !D [good preempt for  !S) is much preferred.

Actually, my bid of choice would be 1 !S because of the extreme shape and solid intermediates in the long  !S suit. But I am sure others would hoot here and it might simply be my prejudice against preempts in both 1st and 2nd seat.

With your hand, Jimmy, you have a choice of continuing with either 4 !H [Beta] or 5 !C [cue-bidding start].

If you start with 4 !H Beta, your partner should use the normal scale since they opened with 4 !D [the stronger  !S preempt]. 100% certain in that respect. After receiving your stepped Beta response the Asking Bid sequence is ON with subsequent bids being Epsilons.

If you start with 5 !C [cue-bid], you start a cue-bidding scan instead of an Asking Bid sequence. Starting with 4NT is also going to initiate a cue-bidding scan as mentioned by Brian. But IMO 5 !C is more accurate since you have a control in  !C. If you lacked a control in  !C, it would be better to start with 4NT rather than skipping the  !C suit. Therefore I would take your 4NT as lacking a  !C control although it still gets the cue-bidding going.

John
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OliverC

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Re: Interesting Hand - How would OCP Bid this hand?
« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2018, 09:16:29 AM »

Brian
I think I agree with you about the scale for Beta after a 4 !C/4 !D Opening. Typically Namyats is a 4-level pre-empt with an outside Ace, or something along those lines, so I'd be perfectly comfortable with using the normal scale.


Jimmy
I think (given my comment above) that I'd be heading for the following sequence as Responder:
4 !D     -     4 !H(Beta)
4NT(3)   -   5 !C(Epsilon)
5 !S(2nd) - 6 !S
All Pass


4 !H agrees Spades so Epsilons are available over the 4NT response. You even just punt 6 !S over the 4NT Beta response.
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Oliver

Jimmy

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Re: Interesting Hand - How would OCP Bid this hand?
« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2018, 05:20:17 PM »

Yes,  I can see OCP using the normal scale,  since responses should be lower level of steps. 

As for the namyats,  we have adopted the system.  However,  we use combination of Cue bids and Key Card since we don't use the asking bid algorithms.     EX:   4D -  4H (cues),  4D - 4NT (KC) and 4D - 4S  signoff
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