Love "all indications E has Heart guard" EDITED

[kiwi_2o1]

North Dealer. Bid this with OCP?

Love sets S in 6S with 9C lead. All non-vl. No opposition bidding.

North
AK
T954
A864
AT3

South
QJT87632
A
Q
K74             Plan you play in CL's 6S.

Edited: East plays in newer lower post with her actual holdings ( she is just KQx).
Also where East holds say Qxx. What now?

My query is what clues suggest East has heart guard?  Redundant unless East has KQ(x?) but not likely KQxxx(N?)

Why can't East have extra D and West the KH?

Yes, East has the KQ but not the KQxxx you hoped for. Will any other play assist?

Cheers Ash

BTW. Good planing with first trick won in dummy (else South has no threats) allows  West or East to hold KH, but you need an indication as to which hand holds it.* If East holds then we may need to play for a double rather than simple squeeze, and this appears(?) to be a hand where one can not combine both types.    ... some poor thinking on my behalf, no East with go up with unsupported QH.

* Would it be because a solid West would throw the KH if he also had JH? A look at EW card (basic St. Am.) suggest they are OK but unlikely to make this deceptive but ordinary play.       

[OliverC]

East's Hearts
East played the Queen of Hearts on the first round of the suit and discarded a small Heart on the second round of Spades. Since West payed the Jack of Hearts on the 3rd round of Hearts, it's crystal clear that East started off with KQxxx in the suit. There's absolutely no way East would hop up with the Heart Queen from Qxxx when Declarer leads a small Heart from Dummy at trick 2.

Bidding
You didn't say who the dealer was but I'm assuming South:

1 - 1NT
2 - 3    // Gamma in
4 - 4NT   // Hxxxxxxx   /  Relay Beta
5 - 5    // 3 Controls  /  Epsilon in Hearts
5 - 6    // None or 1+2  (has to be 1+2) / Enough

Over 5 , North should be able to judge that 6 is the probable limit. South is either 83 in the Majors with AKx in , or has the stiff Ace of Hearts and 4 cards in the Minors with a guarded King somewhere. Either way there is one probable loser. It's not worth a 6!C Epsilon over 5 , because the answer doesn't really help and if South has Kx you're in 6NT with much fewer chances of garnering a 13th trick.

If North was the Dealer, then maybe:

1 - 2    // Alpha
3 - 3    // No Supp, 4+ ctrls  /  Theta
4 - 4NT   // HH  /  Relay Beta
5 - 6 /7    // 7 Controls  /  Enough or optimism rules

7 Controls marks North with AK and the Minor suit Aces (and nothing else), so there is no chance of the Queen of Clubs making an appearance. South cannot afford to ask in Clubs at the 6 level in case North is 2452 with Ax in Clubs. Impossible for North to have AAKKK, because that would be a 1 Opener. Either way, 12 tricks is the probable limit, but it's easier for South to be optimistic and envisage a 13th trick than it is for North because of the possibility North started with AK, xxxx, Axxxx, Ax

[kiwi_2o1]

nice, thanks Oliver. In Loves bidding, North was dealer and opened 1C and thats why I wrongly ruled out East having H KQxx or KQxxx. Perhaps 1NT in his time was 16-18.

[lute57]

Hi Ash,

Oliver hit the hammer on the nail in his OCP sequence with a 2 Gamma

South {Responder}
QJT87632
A
Q
K74

My first thought after Opener's {North} straight forward 1 Opening was to bid 1 as Responder and see whether we could get into some Three-Suited Lebensohl situation for slam exploration and if Opener rebid diamonds [jump to 4 as a backup plan] or if Opener showed a balanced 13-15 NT hand [my backup plan was to invite slam with a big jump to 5 ]. Alpha did not really occur to me at the start and I am not sure why because obviously it is a superior bid especially since I had slam intentions on the mind from the get-go with thoughts about 3-Suited Leb. Anyway 2 Alpha is the bid of choice and it gets you where you wanted to be without much fuss after hearing Opener's stepped Beta response showing seven controls.

Going back to the play of the hand. I assume you are looking at squeezes for a possible 13 trick (overtrick). I see only one loser in Declarer's hand (club trick) and I really can't see how you can squeeze East since the squeeze card is coming from South's hand but I might be missing something there. I readily admit my Declarer strength is intermediate.

IMO, if a squeeze could work here, it needs to be against West. Either of Dummy's 4-card suits could be potential threats. You will also need an entry to Dummy hand if the squeeze works and one of the threat cards becomes developed into a winner [no good if you can't reach it] -- for that reason, I would take the first Club trick in hand [play the 3 from Dummy - at least that's how I voted]. But that's just my opinion. I readily admit I could be out in left field here.

Also what's up with your opponent's not giving count signals? What kind of signals do they use when Declarer's leads from hand or Dummy? Hard to imagine they simply chuck cards. Maybe they should be invited to Oliver's class this Saturday? Eh!?

I was trying to follow the play of the hand - I think there might be a typo (unless there were two Spade Aces in the deck)
 

Thanks for posting, Ash. Your postings are always thought provoking and we have many new OCP players -- thanks in part to your leadership and efforts.

Brother John

[kiwi_2o1]

Thanks John. Corrected R5 so that AS is KS. Yes hand is a squeeze. In my two small local f2f clubs virtually no-one plays count signals and many not even attitude,  . The 10H, 8D act as threats as does the 7C in Souths hand. In the end opponents can't hold their individual suit stop and also 2 clubs on the final run of trumps.

[OliverC]

The initial Lead of the 9 is suggestive that West doesn't have either of the Club honours and is probably shorter in Clubs than East. The Hearts we've already discussed earlier. Given that, the absolutely critical thing is to retain Dummy's Ace in the Diamond suit, because that provides the entry to Dummy at trick 11. Declarer runs all of the Spades and comes down to

  -
  10
  A
  10

  -
  -
  Q
  K7

On the assumption that East started with something like
  x
  KQxxx
  ??
  QJxxx

...they are now left with
  -
  K
  -
  QJ

They have to give up when Declarer now crosses to the A , because they can't come down to 2 cards without abandoning the Hearts or the Clubs. It's an automatic squeeze and so works equally well against either defender who has that holding, but all of the indications are that East has it.

[kiwi_2o1]

Good thinking. I over-looked that no declarer would play his QH in that manner with out a supporting honour.

And unfortunately I mucked up the recording play of cards, so this happens at the table. Note north opened 1C or 1D and no overcall from East.

[OliverC]

LOL, struggling to cope mentally with you continually moving the goalposts here: East has already shown up with KQ73, I think, if I've followed your somewhat unintuitive play diagram correctly (East played the Q under the Ace, the 7 on the next trick, discarded the 3 on the second Spade trick and then played the King on the 3rd round of Hearts.


Admittedly, if East did start off with KQ73 exactly, they know that Partner started with Jxxx after the 2nd round of the suit (when South ruffs), so there's no problem for them to discard the 3 , because they know Partner will still have the suit covered, so the location of the Jack is not now so certain.


What's the point of my trying to cope with KQ7 with East, or KJ??? with West, when I know by trick six that neither of those two situations can possibly apply? In fact I can be fairly sure by trick 4 than the second of those doesn't apply (No way East is going to pop up with the Queen in those circumstances).

[kiwi_2o1]

yes it would have been much easier if I had entered correctly

what would be a better way to display tricks as played?

I've edited the rounds a little that might make play easier. Lead in bold:

USE THIS SEQUENCE OF PLAYS

North
AK
T954
A864
AT3

South
QJT87632
A
Q
K74             Plan you play in CL's 6S.

1.  9 AC 2C 4C
2.  4 QH AH 6H                                         
                                                                   
3.  2 4S AS 5S
4.  5 7H QS 8H             
5.  3 9S KS 2D 
6.  9  KH 6S 7H                ... having some trouble in getting edits to stick because my typing is a mess.             
7.  J 2D 4D 8C
8.  T 5C 6D 3D
9.  8 5D 3C TD

now I'll enter and save hand in Jack and load pbn.
Done.   ... double checked attacked file, I'm sure its OK.

[kiwi_2o1]

LOL, struggling to cope mentally with you continually moving the goalposts here: East has already shown up with KQ73, I think, if I've followed your somewhat unintuitive play diagram correctly (East played the Q under the Ace, the 7 on the next trick, discarded the 3 on the second Spade trick and then played the King on the 3rd round of Hearts.


Admittedly, if East did start off with KQ73 exactly, they know that Partner started with Jxxx after the 2nd round of the suit (when South ruffs), so there's no problem for them to discard the 3 , because they know Partner will still have the suit covered, so the location of the Jack is not now so certain.

Yes and my reply in .



East in fact has KQx, so the 10H is not a threat to him. Her play of QH was normal.

Blast, yet another error in my recall of hands  ...

'2H' discarded by East was meant to be 2C. Typo. Blast.

So East has just KQx, not the JH.




What's the point of my trying to cope with KQ7 with East, or KJ??? with West, when I know by trick six that neither of those two situations can possibly apply? In fact I can be fairly sure by trick 4 than the second of those doesn't apply (No way East is going to pop up with the Queen in those circumstances).

[OliverC]

Ok, on your revised carding diagram, you don't really have any clear idea where the J lies. The only reasonable conclusion you have to date is that East started with QJxxx (and a singleton Spade). That being the case, you just have to go with your gut instinct at trick 10 as to whether you go for the Double Squeeze (ie: play West for the J!H and use Diamonds as the pivot suit), or go for the automatic squeeze against East, playing them for the J and Club length.


Personally, East's discards at tricks 7-9 have persuaded me to take  them for 5-5 in the round suits, so I'm cashing the last Spade and then crossing to the A!D to put East under pressure. If East is canny enough to sacrifice their Hearts, knopwing Partner's Jack is still covering the suit, then they also potentially canny enough to conceal the Jack from KQJ73.


I still think your mooted possibility of East starting with KQx is a red herring, because they've already played the KQ73 in the suit by trick 6.

[kiwi_2o1]

Oliver, YEP, real bad typos on my part. In the published hand East did in fact only have kqx.

Correct suits in attached pbn. My many entry errors ruined the hand more than just a bit. Trying to cover two different scenarios made the entry too problem-some for me. The actual 'red herrings', ....  alternative plays could've come later.

If the play instead reveals East has the hearts then squeeze fails if 9C run around to South.

I wonder if anyone else in our group wants to study or practice squeezes? I know Marty started some time ago. I don't mean me teaching them as I'm learning them my-self and many are a mystery to me.