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Author Topic: How would OCP bid this 5-5 Major with 18 HCP's (Maybe 16HCP's)  (Read 594 times)

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Jimmy

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How would OCP bid this 5-5 Major with 18 HCP's (Maybe 16HCP's)
« on: October 28, 2017, 01:26:29 AM »

Interesting hand today.  We arrived at 4 !H's without bidding  !S's,  making 5 !H's.  The defender sitting South questioned our bidding sequence (which is up the line in this situation) after my partner made an over trick.  This is what happened.  The defense took the first two clubs and then lead another club.  My partner ruffed the 3rd club and then lead the J !D diamonds and South ducked (thinking declarer East had: (5 !H's 4 !S's, 2 !C,2 !D).  Now, my partner pulled all the trump and ran the  !S's for making 5.  Defender said everybody bids the higher ranking suit first.  My partner bid the  !H's first. 

N Deals
E/W Vul

                 North
                                   !S J7
                                   !H 3
                                   !D 95432
                                   !C Q8752

West                                                            East
 !S Q63                                                       !S AK1095
 !H J74                                                        !H AKQ92
 !D KQ106                                                    !D J
 !C 1096                                                      !C J4

                                   South
                                    !S 842
                                    !H 10865
                                    !D A87
                                    !C AK3




I then looked at how OCP would bid this and got confused when it appears that the OCP bidding would proceed as:

1 !C - 1 !S

Then, either 2 !H or 2 !S (both Alpha)

My question is:

How would OCP bid this hand?  Which suit would OCP ask in?  Or, am I missing something in how OCP would bid this hand. 

Or,  would OCP open this 2NT (it is more than 15 HCP's)?

Thanks 




 
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lute57

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Re: How would OCP bid this 5-5 Major with 18 HCP's (Maybe 16HCP's)
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2017, 03:16:56 AM »

Hi Jimmy,

My preference would go with the following sequence:
1 !C-1 !S[GF balanced 8+ HCP]
1NT[Low Beta asking for Aces and Kings]-2 !C[0-2]
2 !S[Iota]
If I get a negative response I can do a new suit Iota in  !H at a lower level than if I had originally Iota'ed in  !H first. But back to the bidding
2 !S- 3 !H [showing HH/Hxx agreeing trumps]
4 !C[Relay Beta - had to step over 3NT for Beta since trumps agreed with a minimum positive]- 4 !H[one control]
it must be a Minor suit King - not of any help since it is known we are missing two Minor suit Aces
4 !S signoff

John
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kiwi_2o1

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Re: How would OCP bid this 5-5 Major with 18 HCP's (Maybe 16HCP's)
« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2017, 08:17:11 AM »

Jimmy. It looks like you are playing a natural system(?), so I think a 1S opening is optimal for me too. Or did your partner bid 2H over a positive response to a strong 1C? A 2S rebid still seems better than 2H to me. John has a nice, clean sequence that we would all aim to reproduce.
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Jimmy

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Re: How would OCP bid this 5-5 Major with 18 HCP's (Maybe 16HCP's)
« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2017, 01:44:39 PM »

Hi Jimmy,

My preference would go with the following sequence:
1 !C-1 !S[GF balanced 8+ HCP]
1NT[Low Beta asking for Aces and Kings]-2 !C[0-2]
2 !S[Iota]
If I get a negative response I can do a new suit Iota in  !H at a lower level than if I had originally Iota'ed in  !H first. But back to the bidding
2 !S- 3 !H [showing HH/Hxx agreeing trumps]
4 !C[Relay Beta - had to step over 3NT for Beta since trumps agreed with a minimum positive]- 4 !H[one control]
it must be a Minor suit King - not of any help since it is known we are missing two Minor suit Aces
4 !S signoff

John

Hello John,  Thanks for the excellent explanation.  I have one minor point and a couple of questions. 

Minor Point:

I think the bidding should have went as below with the Iota response being 3 !D (3 steps).

1 !C - 1 !S
1NT - 2 !C
2 !S - 3 !D [showing HH/Hxx agreeing trumps]

As I mentioned, minor point,  the path is very clear how OCP would handle the bidding. 

Questions: 

Why did you choose the  !S suit for Iota?  Is it because you had most of the honors in the  !H's?  Or, because of a general rule? 
 
How would the bidding proceed if you received a negative 2NT response to your  !S Iota?  Would it be like so:

1 !C - 1 !S
1NT - 2 !S
2NT - 3 !H (Iota in  !H)

Now,  let's reverse the Iota asks and start with Hearts first:

1 !C - 1 !S
1NT - 2  !H
2NT - ?  (trumps confirmed)
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Jimmy

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Re: How would OCP bid this 5-5 Major with 18 HCP's (Maybe 16HCP's)
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2017, 01:59:33 PM »

Jimmy. It looks like you are playing a natural system(?), so I think a 1S opening is optimal for me too. Or did your partner bid 2H over a positive response to a strong 1C? A 2S rebid still seems better than 2H to me. John has a nice, clean sequence that we would all aim to reproduce.

Hi Kiwi, 

Na,  we are playing a strong club system based on a blend of (schenken & super precision with cues and KCB).  And, yes my partner bid 2 !H over a positive 1NT response to a strong club.  Our bidding on this hand was:

P      1 !C   P    1NT
P      2 !H   P    3 !H
4 !H

We bid our touching suits up the line in this situation.  That is why we received a critical comment about having two 5 card major suits and not bidding the higher one first. 

Our reasoning is that if bid the other way, it could show a 5-4,  when bidding the lower one first it definitely shows 5-5. Also,  the 1NT responder will normally (most of the time) not have any singleton suits (because we still use the old fashion impossible negative).  The impossible negative serves us well.  We still retain the jump shift as highly distributional.  Plus if the positive response has a 5 card suit, responder will bid it.  This way if opener has a 6 card suit, opener will be confident that partnership has at least 8 trumps (most of the time), after a 1NT positive response.   
« Last Edit: October 28, 2017, 02:07:20 PM by Jimmy »
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lute57

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Re: How would OCP bid this 5-5 Major with 18 HCP's (Maybe 16HCP's)
« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2017, 03:35:50 AM »

Quote
Why did you choose the  !S  suit for Iota?  Is it because you had most of the honors in the  's?  Or, because of a general rule?

I choose  !S simply because if I got a negative response, I'd be doing a new suit Iota at 3 !H. Whereas if I went with  !H first and got a negative response, I'd be doing a new suit Iota  at 3 !S. Trying to conserve bidding space is always a good idea with asking bid sequences.

Could you have Iota'ed in  !H first? Since only one step separates the two suits, and we are talking Iota Asks, I do not think it's a big deal which you go with first but certainly  !S works best here. Where it really matters is when it is Alpha and there two or three steps separating the two suits. In that case, since a negative Alpha is one or two steps, you preference should be with bidding the cheapest of the two suits first. Example:
1 !C-1 !S and you hold a two suiter [5-5] in  !C!H and plan on using Alpha. Here Alpha in  !C because if you get a negative, 2 !H will always be there for you next TAB.

Hope that helps, in general, OCP relies lots on judgment and less on rules than other systems. That can be good or bad depending on how tightly one is wound.  ;D

Prior to playing OCP I was more tightly wound than a woodpecker's butt hole, now I am as loose as a bovine's butt hole. Pardon, the pigpen humor.

John
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